India-Israel Bilateral Relations

A discussion on India-Israel Bilateral Relations. The participants are Ranjan Mathai, former foreign secretary and Vinith Wahi, journalist. The India - Israel relations are set to reach new high with the two countries signing agreements on water resources management and agriculture. It may recalled that Israeli President Reuven Rivlin is in India currently on a 8 day visit. One to One meeting with Prime Minister Narendra Modi in which two peaceful agreements are signed and they also made a joint statement. 
Q. Mr. Ranjan Mathai, how do you view the current visit of Israeli President in India?
Ya, it is a very welcome visit. It's been a longtime since an Israeli head of state has been to India. I recall the excitement when the first Israeli Presidential visit took place. That was Mr. Ezer Weizman many years ago, perhaps around 20 years ago. So it is good to have the Israeli President here. It is a mark of  the strength of our relationship. I think it will further consolidate the strong ties between the two countries.
Q. Will it have any impact on the Indian relations with Middle East Asian countries? And if so, to what extent ?
Well, overall the policy of our government has been that we would like to have very strong relations with Israel while at the same time we continue to have very very strong, very deep and extensive relations with the Arab countries in West Asia. Certainly I think this visit will be a part of the same policy and part of the same trend.
Q. You have been an ex-envoy to Israel. What do you think has changed over the course of past so many years and the past two years that India and Israel seem to be coming little more closer?
I think the relationship between our two countries has been growing very steadily. I do not know if one can categorise any particular period. Just to give you an example when we established diplomatic relations in 1992, the total trade turnover between the two countries was something like $200 million. By the time I went there as ambassador in 1998 and when I was leaving in 2001, it was close to a $1 billion, 5 times growth. Today it is almost $5 billions. You can see that there has been a steady upward progression in trade relations and all across the board. I think one or two interesting things which have taken place in the last few years is the acceleration of high level visits. Our president paid a visit to Israel as you recall and the growth in high technology figures is also noticeable. 
Q. The figures suggest that the trade between the two countries has stagnated at the level of $4.5 billion since 2012. How do you view this ?
You might recall that global trade itself has not been growing in the years after 2008. In fact in the last two years, India's overall export performance has not been very great in the sense that because of world market conditions, our exports have in fact declined in some months and have stabilised in others. I think the opportunity for trade will continue to exist. One of the factors that cause upward and downward movement in Indo-Israeli trade is the global markets for diamonds. You might be aware that the diamonds constitute a very large part of the both import basket as well as polished diamonds as part of the export basket. There could be a number of factors but I believe that the future is bright, particularly with areas like high technology, pharmaceuticals, equipment related to water management and of course agriculture. I think the prospects are still very good. 
Q. Yes, there is obvious scope to further increase the ties between the two countries.
Which are the areas you think where the two countries can have more cooperation? And what were the impediments earlier which were not letting it happen?
Well, certainly the growth of the Indian market particularly for specialised goods say for example medical equipment in certain areas where Israelis are very strong: medical imaging for example. There is potential for increase in trade. On the Indian side, I think some of the manufactured goods which are being made in India particularly after the Make in India thrust of the Prime Minister, as our sophistication increases, they will find a place in the Israeli market. That said I think there is lot of scope for cooperation also in services sector. We are both strong in the IT industry. Particularly the Israelis are known for strengths in both software as well as hardware. We are more known for the software side. Electronics is another area where I think our two countries have great potential for increased trade. That said, I would also not underestimate the potential for improvement in agricultural technology as an element in our trade and of course growth of tourist trade is also one of great potential between the countries.


Q. President Reuven Rivlin said that Israel is ready to make in India and make with India. What was the context ?
I think that's a very positive statement and very positive development. Israel has, as I said number of very effective small start up companies, the companies which have grown out of what they call their incubators which have extremely advanced technology. They may not be able to invest very large sums on the scale of global multi nationals, but certainly if they came here and invested in Indian companies, in joint ventures, that make with India, I think sky is the limit for what can be achieved through this kind of collaboration. 
Q. Talking about countering terrorism and tackling terrorism, the Israeli President says that he is on support to India on countering terrorism and he made a statement saying terror is terror, terror, terror and terror. How do you look at this ?
Well, Israel had certainly had a consistent policy of supporting India on counter terrorism and in terms of development of capabilities for preventing terrorism as well as countering it. So I think there is much scope for our countries to work together and I think it is very very positive that the Israeli President has emphasised that this cooperation will continue, it is not limited to India's purchase of advanced equipment whether of weaponry or surveillance equipment hut also in terms of training, joint training, sharing of certain critical kinds of intelligence particularly in the areas like cyber security. So I think the potential is great and I think the emphasis on working together in the field of countering terrorism for India is certainly very important.
Q. This kind of statement is kind of an indication or signal to our immediate terror across the border. The joint statement issued by the Prime Minister Modi and the Israeli President?
It is known that the main source of terrorism affecting India, main challenge for terrorism in India comes from across the border, across our western border. So certainly this is a signal that yes, we will continue to work together against this particular source of threat of terrorism against India. 


Q. The international community must act with a resolve and with determination to act against the terrorist networks and states that also harness them. So that is again an indication?
Yes, certainly. I would agree with that. That is a well crafted statement because it suggests that you have to deal with states sponsors of terrorism as well as states which turn a blind eye or which claim not to have control over their own territory. So, yes, this is an area where the two countries have joint interest.
Q. The two countries have also agreed to make defence ties more broad based. What does it mean?
I think it means two things: 1. That Israeli technologies will be brought into India as part of the defence manufacturing in India rather than India being only a purchaser of Israeli equipment. You may well be aware that India-Israeli defence relations have been on an upward trajectory for sometime now. I happen to be an ambassador in Israel during Kargil conflict during when a quantum leap in our defence relationship has started. But I think now with the emphasis being given by this government to manufacturing defence equipment in India, creating capabilities in R&D for defence equipment in India. I think there is a particular role which the Israeli defence industry and the Israeli government could play because their  R&D is very strong. Their domestic manufacturing capabilities are extremely diverse as well as sophisticated. So I think they have a role to play in the development of manufacturing sector of defence industries in India. 
Q. Mr. Modi thanked the visiting Israeli President for their support to India's case for UNSC permanent seat. How do you look at this, sir?
Well, it is very welcome because it has one more country who is supporting our candidature and certainly is confidence they are expressing in India's position and India's record and how India is perceived globally. 
Q. Agreement in water resource management and agriculture. How it is going to benefit us?
In the early years, we gave lot of emphasis to the potential for India-Israeli cooperation in the field of agriculture. In fact one of the lessons that I learnt when I was the ambassador so many years ago was the great interest being shown by the various states of India. In fact by the time I reached there, 9 Chief Ministers had visited Israel.  Now that's pretty unique. What is the interest? The interest is in developing the agricultural capabilities, managing scarce water resources. Israel has been an example to the rest of the world in managing its water resources. So the research and development in these areas: Water Management and agriculture has been one of the most important elements in our bilateral relations. I am delighted that the Weizmann institute and other famous agricultural institutes of Israel continue to have Indian research workers and a number of joint ventures in animal husbandry, in agriculture and in water management equipment have actually come up in India with Israeli technology.
Q. Which are the other areas you think the two countries can have cooperation for mutual benefit?
I think education, particularly higher education in technology and advanced science is an area where the two countries can work together. Israel has some outstanding institutes of technology for example the Technion, that's I think certainly one area. New and pioneering forms of renewable energy. Israelis have done a lot of work. We have done tremendous work in our own country. So I think this is another area where we can work together. The scope is very large. We are already collaborating in space technology. Areas of pharmaceuticals, life sciences, these are the areas where I think there is scope for even more.
Q. Overall, what's the take away from the current visit? To put things in prospective, what's the overall take away from this current visit?
There is a consensus in both of the countries that we have need work on the relationship and make sure it delivers for our peoples. I think this visit is a signal that the direction we will go, the direction Israel will go and it is a very positive development.
Some of your expenses you had as an envoy to Israel? 
Well, certainly I had great experiences during my 3 and half years in Israel. I did see Mr. Rivlin just once when he became minister of communications and then of course  I left.  But I think the interesting thing was to discover the depth of the relationship, the role played by the Indian Jewish community in Israel. Fascinating recollection of going into events where large groups of Indians who have migrated from India wanted to actually hear me speaking in either in Marathi or Malayalam because those are the two main languages of the Indian Jewish community there. Many of the young people when they complete their training, they take 6 months of holidays and India has turned out to be one of their favourite destinations for their holidays. Good literal works have been written about this trend and it was one of my great privileges to have someone like Mr. Shimon Peres come and preside over our cultural events, talk about how in literature and in culture too in addition to science, technology, defence and trade we have a very very fine and profound relationship. 
Q. So this visit of Israeli President will help come together of ties between the two countries?
Most certainly, it does.